have a great weekend and good night from new york. >> if you ask one more mean question, i may have to leave the stage? >> three days before the iowa caucuses, will that debate change anything? is it true trump drew a bigger awedins by not going -- audience by not going to the debate? >> everyone on this stage is side, fat and ugly, and ben, you are a terrible surgeon. >> should we be bombing both sides of the war? >> come out of the shadows, pay a fine. >> i don't think we have to destroy our economy in order to protect our environment.
>> who won, who lost. and which candidate makes the most sense? the fox debate and what it means. that's our show tonight. >> announcer: and now john stossel. john: who won last night's debate. who will win in iowa monday. here with a look at the issues. two libertarians and a conservative. you can figure out who's who during the show. they are former radio host jason lewis. radio host tasmy bruce and camille foster of free think media. any of the debaters inspire you? >> it was a little more subject and which without the donald in
there. but i think coming out of the debate it's still status question it's still trump-cruz. >> i enjoyed it baits was easier in a way. everyone was more comfortable. there was less in-fighting. and i was surprised with rand paul. in part he seemed to own -- i disagree with some of his foreign policy issues but i was impressed with his style, his comfort level. ted cruz held steady generally. the fight between cruz and rubio and bush about the immigration highlighted the problems that the republican party and why trump is doing so well. john: it was so in the weeds, i couldn't even follow it. >> it was. >> we chimed in here. i think rand did do a pretty good job.
jeb seemed to show up and be a lot more comfortable without his arch nemesis not in the room. but i don't know there was that much more substance. but folks avoiding questions and going after one another getting deep into the weeds. i don't know most people who approached a debate like that hoping to learn something learned a great deal about the issues. john: i heard five minutes worth comments i liked and here is one. >> i do not believe we have to destroy our economy in order to protect our environment. especially with these programs they are asking to us pass that will do nothing to help the environment but will be devastating for our economy. john: he was responding to ought global warming scare. it's such a good point. all the stuff they are doing won't make any difference but will hurt the economy. >> if china and india agree to
it which they won't, we have got a regulatory juggernaut keeping this economy flat lined. we had fourth quarter gdp figures come out today. we need to spend more time on the economy. john: let's talk about the likely winner in iowa and the likely republican nominee. that's donald trump. i call him the likely winner because the odd, betting odds.com say he's well ahead. trump has a 2/3 chance of wing. up% since just this morning. trus is sect with a 26% shot. then comes rubio. in the national contest. trump leads again, marco rubio is second. cruz and bush are next. these odds update every five minutes at election betting odds.com.
>> i think the people of iowa would disagree this has been decided because they wait, and they then decide. john: the betters aren't that smart to predict. >> if everything was the same, all things being equal, maybe you could. but don't mistake the noise for the signal. i think we saw that with ratings last night. fox news had their second largest program in its history. john: that's a surprise for later. >> i think what we are seeing with betting is attention, name recognition, versus the carefulness that the iowa voters are putting in. >> and the type it takes to go to a caucus. 3 or 4 hours. then you move to the next level if you want to be a delegate. iowa has not been a good predictor of the eventual
nominee. but if trump does win he rolls the table. >> i agree, that's the key. i called this for ted cruz because of his ground game. they are tied right now. but i think it will be cruz's ground gape that gives it to him. john: they are not tied. one group produced an ad about what trump once said about health insurance. >> everybody has to be covered. this is an unrepublican thing for me to say. i'm going to take care of everybody. >> who pays for it? >> the government is going to pay for it. it's what the leftists want. this has long been the donald's criticism of the affordable care act, it doesn't go far enough in giving control of healthcare to
the federal government. but it's surprising this doesn't seem to be an issue for him. when you look at this primary, the thing that i find most distressing is the factth doesn't seem to be a heck of a lot of conservatism among the rotors. >> reagan supported f.d.r. and hubert humphrey. >> any person who is genuinely wants government to be smaller and people's lives to be better. more individual freedom. cannot advocate for the ultimate monster, the government which sucks everything out of the room. john: i like how you put it. it gives control to the government which means it takes it away from the government. >> personal freedom is over entirely. donald trump is a liberal. >> people criticizing donald trump are the problem.
when john kasich gets on his preaching modes and quotes scripture for his expansion of obamacare in ohio. john: trump on recently declared himself republican. in the past he said things like this. >> it seems that the economy does better under the democrats than the republicans. john: this is part of this ad running. will it change anyone's mind? >> the economy isn't doing well under this democrat. donald trump is immune to this stuff. john: it's the accumulated regulations. george bush did a lot of that. >> the issue is liberalism. john: big government, liberalism. >> they campaign as conservative
and govern as liberal. that's why you are seeing this shocking turn-about for donald trump in this desire and knowing something big has to happen to change this. people are tired of being betrayed and lied to. but it would be a none victory to elect a donald trump who wants big government and government control. >> republican voters were duped enough. they were told george w. bush was a real conservative, not like his father. john: maybe trump is the real thing. >> maybe we go in with our eyes open and vote for this moderate and he will move right. >> this is why ohio can be different. they -- iowa. ohio and every other state. there is a choice this type around. it's not donald trump, jeb bush and john kasich. there is a real choice people have and i think that will make a difference.
john: more on trump. i have called trump a bully because of his support of eminent domain when government can forcibly take property from someone so it can build something on their property. trump recently called eminent domain a wonderful thing. and he once tried to use that power to kick an old woman out of her home so he could build a parking lot. you are bullying these people out. >> that's wrong. for you to use the word bully is unfair. this is a government case. this is not donald trump. >> it you and your cronies in government working together. >> for you to call these people cronies is unfair. john: that's not what's happening here? >> not at all. i think it's a sick assumption and jaded for you to make it. john: in the old days develops came in with thugs with clubs.
now, you go to court and force people out. >> maybe other people used thugs, i don't. i have done this very nicely. john: he's still using the force of government when you use eminent domain to take people's property away from them. the fact of the matter is donald trump doesn't seem to have any philosophical moorings. the on thing that seems to do is i'm smarter than those guys in d.c. it's not an excess of executive power it's a he's not there. if anyone thinks the fundamental failing with our politics is we don't have enough donald trumps, they are mistaken. john: don't you want to build the keystone pipeline? john: sometimes it's useful.
but for a private businessman to build a limousine parking lot. >> the difference between taking something to build something of general public use like a highway or the keystone pipeline versus what kilo did which aloud the government to take away property and give it to another private person for their development because taxes would be higher. john: it went to the supreme court. >> that's what we are arguing about. >> it's a slippery slope. i don't think you need eminent domain to get the keystone pipeline built. >> there is purpose purpose and the other is just compensation. my family business went through eminent domain and those things don't always occur when it comes to compensation.
john: i asked for your thoughts on facebook and twitter. sarah snyder wrote, much better debate. wait, i was watching trump get millions of dollars for the wounded warriors. i got nice facebook comments on how no one would watch the debate on fox. and trump said that himself. what is the truth. what did tv viewers watch last night? the debate or the donald show. i have got the numbers, i'll share them with you after this. e*trade is all about seizing opportunity. so i'm going to take this opportunity to go off script. so if i wanna go to jersey and check out shotsy tuccerelli's portfolio,
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>> we'll have more people than they have. john: more people in the donald's charity event did draw several million tv viewers. 2 million on cnn. much higher than their normal audience and another million on msnbc. but the fox debate was watched by 12 million people. it wasn't the highest rated debate, but not the lowest either.
more people watched this debate without trump than the previous debate with trump. the other big issue besides the commission our safety. national defense is the main role of government. so what will republican candidates do about isis? >> we'll utterly destroy isis. we'll carpet bomb them into oblivion. >> together all of us could take isis out, destroy it. >> i would hit them so hard your head would spin. there is nobody bigger or bert at the military than i am. john: what does this stuff mean? we are going to kill them all. they can't do that. >> isis is our -- our principal enemy. to go into iraq and create another vacuum that radical sunni can fill is what got us
into this problem to begin with. let's focus on our sunni allies who are nowhere to be found in this fight. general petraeus said we can't put troops on the ground in syria because we can't rely on sunni forces there. >> what i found the most distressing about the conversation yesterday is no one seemed to be interested in how we got here. we have been mired in the middle east for more than a decade. and we find ourselves in a desperate situation facing what marco rubio describes as the worst possible thing that has ever happened to man kind. he didn't use nose words exactly but he pretty much said that. how did this happen? john: we are in their countries and that makes them want to kill us. they hate us. >> it seems like caves unintended consequences. john: ted cruz said obama dramatically degrade our
military. >> the size of the army is important but it's also about leadership. it means being able to make a decision, go in and deal with the issue. it's the difference between the argument about like civilian casualties. we say we don't want to kill civilians so we pretty much use one missile to kill one guy. john: more missiles, kill them all. >> the realization we have isis an entity, we know where their headquarters are and their main city is. it makes a difference when it comes to how many other civilians are going to be killed. with syria if we actually dealt with syria and had an actual plan which hillary did not. maybe 250,000 people wouldn't be dead it's like death by a thousand cuts. >> do you have agree we he advice rated the military? >> when you are looking at the
nature of world war ii and what that took. but also with china. we have to be able to keep up. john: heee advice rated the military? this is what the republicans said. this is what tasmy said. we have a graph defense spending. we are spending more. >> spending is not about how much we have. we are a government of corrupt people, krucht bureaucracy and waste. you could be spending $10 trillion and have he advice rated the military. >> it's a matter of having a bureaucracy which the military is and believing they dock this complicated thing like fix the middle east with these blunt instruments like bombs and boots on the ground. we have been trying. this project appears to be a failed project. it's not clear to me isis has an air force tore navy fan the ability to project power. john: did you hear one
republican point out that there is a down side to carpet bombing? >> the question of is should we be bombing both sides of the war in some want to bomb isis and asaad simultaneously. i think that's a really bad idea. john: me, too. >> you can't do what you have did in syria. they don't think about the forward dynamic. there is no ally anymore. >> crocker receives it's worse off than before the invasion. >> this is the point. before obama you have had iraq generally stable, there was leadership. john: so stay there forever. should we be in vietnam, too? >> the dmz, we may not like it but we have seen in the last seven years that by retreating it causes more problems in the world. john: i disagree. and what the panel says is the most important issue it's not a
john: back with our panel to talk about the presidential race. jason lewis, radio host tammy bruce and kmele foster. what's the biggest issue affect the race? >> immigration. that's why donald trump is leading in the the pack. >> it doesn't have to be by the many symbolic of the larger issues we are facing. john: it's what got trump noticed. people say the only reason republicans talk about immigration is criticizing it is what got people talking about
it. an has a solution. >> i would build a great wall. nobody builds walls better than me, and i'll build them very inexpensively and i will have mexico pay for that wall. john: he will have mexico pay for it. this man is winning. and his fans are trashing me on twitter here. what am i missing. mexico isn't going to pay for it. >> it's important as an issue and it goes to the point of political correctness and americans feel betrayed. politicians telling us this would be solved. they haven't soifltd and we feel lied to and betrayed and donald trump is channeling that anger. john: four years ago he said this. >> how do you throw somebody out who has lived in this country for 20 years. you can't throw everybody out. john: that sounds like a more
reasonable position. >> this is the problem that the republican party in the last election distanced itself from some of the lower-income voters that have historically supported it. john: you think those are the people who are most angry about immigration? >> there is a populist angst. but immigration is not a huge issue. these people are having problems and immigration isn't what's holding them down. >> the center for immigration studies points out open borders with a modern welfare state. we all believe in the free throw of trade which is why new york trades with pennsylvania.
when you have got a welfare state and open borders it's a problem. if milton freeman thinks it's a problem, i do, too. john: i hear economists say immigrants are good for america and good for the economy. they do take some americans' jobs. but they bring skills and new ideas that create more jobs. but most people don't believe that. ted cruz found a way to respond to people like me who say immigration is good. >> if people are journalism degrieves were coming over driving count wages in the press, then we would see stories about the economic calamity befalling the nation. >> it's already the case that immigrants come here and compete with doctors, surgeons and nurses.
they compete with programmers. it hasn't decimated our economy. even low-skilled labor can serve as a complement to american labor. they buy homes. they buy food. >> we shouldn't be subsidizing labor. >> we shouldn't be erecting arbitrary boundaries to prevent people from coming here to keep wages artificially high. >> the other problem is the 90 million americans off the work rolls. the h1 visa people coming in from india being trained by the americans currently holding those jobs. john: our welfare system has discouraged people from working. >> generally americans do want to work. it's an issue of self-esteem. john: you are saying the immigrants are taking those jobs? >> there are lawsuits that
indicate they are. john: why do the companies fight so hard to bring them in? >> cheaper wages. >> some of those expire and we kick out high-skilled people. we subsidize corporate welfare. we subsidize businesses for hiring low-killed labor and we kick out engineers. >> the number of people coming over the border, they have english as second language class. these people need to be shown how to hold a writing instrument. the people entering the country. these are the indigenous individuals who escaping horrible poverty who are not just starting to look for a better part time job. these people are looking to try to have a life. this ways we are trying to
assimilate. >> the rates of migration from that part of the world is falling. >> with the economy. john: okay. coming up. how iowa caucuses lead politicians to sacrifice children to the corn god. >> i'm totally in favor of ethanol, 100% and i will support it. ♪ i don't want to live with the uncertainties of hep c. or wonder whether i should seek treatment. i am ready. because today there's harvoni. a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. harvoni is proven to cure up to 99% of patients who've had no prior treatment. it's the one and only cure that's one pill, once a day for 12 weeks. certain patients... can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. with harvoni, there's no interferon and there are no complex regimens. tell your doctor if you have other liver or kidney problems,
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america's ethanol. government requires it because politicians want votes in iowa. >> i'm a strong supporter of the renewable fuel standard because i think it holds the promise for not only more fuel for automobiles, but for aviation. john: aviation, too. as hi are you goes on to stay ... >> we have just begun to explore how much we can do. john: right. explore, but who is this we were talking about? government officials don't know what fuels are best. that should be decided among competition between greedy people looking to make money in a free market. and not every candidate supports
the mandate. cruz, rubio, paul and kasich said they would get rid of it. >> no subsidies for oil and gas, ethanol, wind, solar, anybody else. >> i don't think the federal government should be mandating any kind of energy we use. john: don't you want to encourage good energy like wind and solar? >> the subsidy for ethanol was phased out. if you go to iowa they have wind turbines all over the place and the subsidy is til in effect. >> this started because al gore admitted in 2010 that he did it for vote. he wanted to give money to the farmers. he admitted this is a failure. >> that was refreshing. >> it was. john: we have a graph of environmental groups that oppose ethanol.
they thought it polluted less. >> governor branstad's son controls the industry. his son is a representative of the industry and has been going after ted cruz and that's his job, that's how he gets his money. john: i think that's disgusting. the governor gave a response. he has been an unabashed supporter of renewable energy. he's proud of his southern's efforts to educate the public. >> this is the one case where we have seen trump go after ted cruz very hard. ted cruz held the line and he continues to be against his issue. my strong suspicion is he's probably looking ahead to new hampshire and beyond iowa. the last two guys who won iowa
came out and supported the ethanol subjects does. but they didn't win the elect. i could lose iowa but i could hold to my conservative credentials. >> that what you easy when oil was $145 a barrel. john: it make less sense now. we are going to run out of oil but now we are not. energy analyst jerry taylor -- taylor says if you are not willing to sacrifice children to the corn gowd won't get out of the high what primary. >> if you have a president who understands what the difference is maybe they won't be hung out to dry, that this is a transition. john: i trust the betting od. trump 66%, cruz 29% in iowa.
>> branstad says they won't let the distribution come into play. they were complaining on the reform hated gasoline. john: the pollution argument is fascinating. they said this pollutes less. we have to truck it here and all that create pollution. but once government start subsidizing things, they never stop. >> you need a budget sequester. you need to cut everything across the board. john: marco rubio said he would cut the ethanol subsidy over 7 years.
the government forces us to pay more for sugar. >> i'm prepared to get rid of the sugar program. the problem is every country in the world that grows sugar has a program. so when they are get rid of theirs, i'm prepared to get rid of ours. >> it's always past his two terms. i think mr. rubio is an opportunist. he says the most of what he needs to get through, then he backs away. john: my nominee for worst presidential candidate. but or favorite moments from last night's debate. i've been called a control freak... i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national.
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john: back live. who are the best candidates, who are the worst? last night the best lines or the worst. kmele? >> rand had the best showing. probably one of the best moments. it was when rand and cruz had that exchange about reclaiming the mantel of liberty. had rand been running hard on that particular side of the ticket i think he would have done bert and had more enthusiasm from voters.
john: tammy? >> i like through more being injected into it. i liked cruz's response about the trump moment, everybody is a jerk. and rubio's comment about bernie sanders being a good president for sweden. john: it's a prime minister. >> i'm not a big chris christie guy but his answer on the religion question and the importance of the first amendment and religious liberty web said preserving lidge liberty is key. i those that was a very good answer. john: for me the worst moment in the debate were when marco rubio through his faith in my face. >> i always allow my faith to influence everything i do.
the bible commands us to let our light shine on the world. there is only one savior and it's not me. john: it's pandering to evangelicals. >> it's distasteful in a presidential election. my worst moment was probably chris christie's naked 9/11 is very scary, we are all afraid of the terrorists. part of the reason we are so afraid is you keep talking about it in this way. >> i think the thing for everybody was the fight between rubio and jeb bush. and it highlighted on immigration what everybody doesn't like which is the accusation of who is the bigger flip-flopper and they both wanted amnesty and then they didn't. it's like two children fighting it's a reminder of why donald trump is doing so well. john: i couldn't follow it. reading the papers this morning people were saying that was the
best part. they really got into it. >> they were fighting over who wanted more of illegal status for immigrants while trump is saying i don't want any illegal status. speaking of worst moments. every time john kasich opens his mouth i feel like i'm being lectured. he's better than anybody else and he cares more than anybody else. that rubs me the wrong way. john: favorite candidate. >> still rand paul. >> i was for walker and fiorina, now i'm with ted cruz. >> i'll go with rand or cruz or trump. john: worse. >> trump and cruz together. >> heartbreaking dr. carson, he's an inspiration and will do a good job in the future in government in some capacity. >> rick santorum.
john: have you noticed almost every presidential candidate both parties declared himself a leader, what can do person, someone who gets things done. there is no modesty, no sense that government has limits. that's why my vote for worst presidential candidate goes to chris christie. in a previous debate he said he would shoot down russian planes. rand small smartly responded with this line. >> if you are in favor of world war iii you have your candidate. john: this week christie wins for we did to new jersey taxpayers in the name of fixing atlantic city. fixing. six years ago the city was going broke and the governor said ... >> we need to reform and rability build atlantic city. and we need to do it without government money.
john: without government money. small government principles. in the washington post, a reporter explained christie had a couple of options. he could do nothing, let the free market drive out the weaker casinos hoping the city and the casinos would innovate their way out of the problem. there would be upheavals. some people who were owed money wouldn't be paid in full. but thanks to casino taxes it was paying pensions to long-retired lifeguards who only worked four months a year. but instead the politicians stepped in. chris christie's advisors said he should take over the whole city. he took over only half. the cool half. the casinos. christie put them under the
oversight of a state agency funded bid casino taxes. it would replace atlantic city's old government agencies. we'll put in one state agency for control and have the casinos as partners for that agency. john: and he said again there will be month cost to taxpayers. >> you have my word it will be done without government money. john: that's not what happened. the bureaucrats spent millions on public art projects like this statue of a nude holding a dead deer. does this inspire you to gamble at a casino? no? they also bought tv ads. they spent money to come up with a slogan. but none of the brilliant ideas
worked ban the casinos kept going bankrupt. when this casino's owner gave up on finishing his hotel, christie decided he would finish it. he got the legislature to okay a $200 million in tax inventives and a $2 million grant. by building it you get employment for people in the construction unions. the politically connected construction unions. and that no tax money pledge gone. now taxpayers were investing. >> we are going to make the type of investment in femples our dollars and manpower and support we need to to make sure we bring this city to a new renaissance. reporter: the rave lerks opened, lost money and filed for bankruptcy a year later. >> almost every casino in
atlantic city is bankrupt. john: trump's casino is bankrupt, too. trump said he made money even if atlantic city didn't. so is christie apologetic now? no. politicians never apologize. this month in iowa he was asked if in hindsight he would have done anything differently. nothing he plead. his new solution to government failure is more government. >> greater state involvement makes sense. john: this week the governor announced his state would take over the other half of atlantic city. >> we'll restructure their debt. john: i like the way "the washington post" reporter puts it. his style of government. unwilling to acknowledge the limits of his power.
he demonstrates the arrogance of a big government politician and i don't want him to be my president. that's our show. thanks for watching. for being with us. kennedy: here we are together just like it's meant to be and i'm watching you, iowa. i will say this. some of you in the hawkeye state if you are being honest actually agree with me. your state is annoying. it's all we hear about, iowa, iowa, iowa. but if iowa pulls through the country will stand up and say iowa-what?